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I can remember reading a book describing how one of her ministers had to explain to Thatcher what a Lesbian was. Her reaction was something like "Good Grief, do people really get up to that sort of thing".

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Swing wrote:I can remember reading a book describing how one of her ministers had to explain to Thatcher what a Lesbian was. Her reaction was something like "Good Grief, do people really get up to that sort of thing".


I suspect there was far more of this 'attitude' back in the 70's than there is now.

Put another way.. If a Cabinet leader had made that (Edited) speech in more recent years, i cannot imagine nearly as many 'cheers of approval' from the audience. A bit like how it was acceptable back in the 80's for a group of middle class white boys to drive through London in a tranny van playing 'spot the whitey'. :rofl:

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Swing wrote:I can remember reading a book describing how one of her ministers had to explain to Thatcher what a Lesbian was. Her reaction was something like "Good Grief, do people really get up to that sort of thing".


Just before going back to number 10 and discussing with Jimmy his latest conquests

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smeggypants wrote:Just before going back to number 10 and discussing with Jimmy his latest conquests


Jimmy was a necrophiliac, not a pedophile, according to Paul Gambacini.

But this may be splitting hairs.

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smeggypants wrote:


Can't believe she got away with that, though I imagine thats not the whole speech in context. However regardless of the editing, the statement where she is implying children do not have a right to be gay is a disgrace, and Section 28 is also homophobic. :stomp:
Another reason to dislike the woman and what she stood for.

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grimtales1 wrote:Can't believe she got away with that, though I imagine that's not the whole speech in context.


Correct, the conference speech was aimed squarely at exposing the existing policies of the collective 'isms' of the time, racism, anti-semitism and anything else that was apparent, but on the back boiler owing to more important things that were happening around the country.
The Labour Party were in a pact with the Liberals, who were on the whole an unsavoury bunch, the UK was in serious decline thanks to either ineffectual or damaging joint policies, add to the mix the unions stifling the economy, restricting the individuals 'right to work'.

Whilst some of the content is disturbing, it was a rallying speech of it's time, with certain parts used nowadays by those interested in trite point-scoring.

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Channel Hopper wrote:
grimtales1 wrote:Can't believe she got away with that, though I imagine that's not the whole speech in context.


Correct, the conference speech was aimed squarely at exposing the existing policies of the collective 'isms' of the time, racism, anti-semitism and anything else that was apparent, but on the back boiler owing to more important things that were happening around the country.
The Labour Party were in a pact with the Liberals, who were on the whole an unsavoury bunch, the UK was in serious decline thanks to either ineffectual or damaging joint policies, add to the mix the unions stifling the economy, restricting the individuals 'right to work'.

Whilst some of the content is disturbing, it was a rallying speech of it's time, with certain parts used nowadays by those interested in trite point-scoring.



( except for the later years Pinochet lauding ) All criticisms of Thatcher are about what she did in those times though. The Homophobia and Section 28 is no exception.

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smeggypants wrote:All criticisms of Thatcher are about what she did in those times though. The Homophobia and Section 28 is no exception.


Except it was a clause within a Bill drafted up virtually a decade later. Get with it Smeggy !

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Channel Hopper wrote:
smeggypants wrote:All criticisms of Thatcher are about what she did in those times though. The Homophobia and Section 28 is no exception.


Except it was a clause within a Bill drafted up virtually a decade later. Get with it Smeggy !


?????

Section 28 was part of the Local Government Act 1988 --- The speech thatcher made above was in October 9, 1987 the previous year.

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Ah, my mistake, I didn't click on the link (no audio on this laptop ) and was responding to the 70's banter below it from Mr S and Swing.

So, the drawing and quartering is going to happen at which part of today's route ?

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She and her Tory party did immense damage. Scum of the Earth.



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grimtales1 wrote:
smeggypants wrote:


Can't believe she got away with that, though I imagine thats not the whole speech in context. However regardless of the editing, the statement where she is implying children do not have a right to be gay is a disgrace, and Section 28 is also homophobic. :stomp:
Another reason to dislike the woman and what she stood for.


The thing is here, she is talking about children. Do children have a right to be gay? I certainly think not, as anyone who has intercourse, either heterosexual or homosexual, with a child is a paedophile. Don't forget that years ago there was no mention at all of homosexuality in the school curriculum, there was none at all when my friend was at school in the 60's & 70's that he can remember of. When homosexuality was first decriminalised in the 60's it was still very much a taboo subject and anyone practising it with a boy under 21 could be severely punished. In the 1990's they were still wondering whether to lower that age of consent for gays or not, even though the age of majority had been lowered to 18.
When I was 15 in 1984/85 I came home from school with a book called 'Biology For Life' which contained a chapter on reproduction. In it, there was a passage on contraception, a passage on masturbation and a passage on homosexuality. The passage on homosexuality upset and shocked my parents, who read it, as it explained in quite graphic detail what anal sex was and said there was nothing wrong with being a homosexual. They were both Jehovah's Witnesses and had different moral standards from many other people at the time, but I'm pretty sure even if they hadn't been they still wouldn't have thought the book to be suitable for school use. I think there has to be a limit on what can be taught in schools, otherwise we are just putting children on the same level as adults.

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philipdalton wrote:
grimtales1 wrote:
smeggypants wrote:


Can't believe she got away with that, though I imagine thats not the whole speech in context. However regardless of the editing, the statement where she is implying children do not have a right to be gay is a disgrace, and Section 28 is also homophobic. :stomp:
Another reason to dislike the woman and what she stood for.


The thing is here, she is talking about children. Do children have a right to be gay? I certainly think not, as anyone who has intercourse, either heterosexual or homosexual, with a child is a paedophile. Don't forget that years ago there was no mention at all of homosexuality in the school curriculum, there was none at all when my friend was at school in the 60's & 70's that he can remember of. When homosexuality was first decriminalised in the 60's it was still very much a taboo subject and anyone practising it with a boy under 21 could be severely punished. In the 1990's they were still wondering whether to lower that age of consent for gays or not, even though the age of majority had been lowered to 18.
When I was 15 in 1984/85 I came home from school with a book called 'Biology For Life' which contained a chapter on reproduction. In it, there was a passage on contraception, a passage on masturbation and a passage on homosexuality. The passage on homosexuality upset and shocked my parents, who read it, as it explained in quite graphic detail what anal sex was and said there was nothing wrong with being a homosexual. They were both Jehovah's Witnesses and had different moral standards from many other people at the time, but I'm pretty sure even if they hadn't been they still wouldn't have thought the book to be suitable for school use. I think there has to be a limit on what can be taught in schools, otherwise we are just putting children on the same level as adults.


Just being Gay doesn't mean you have sex. I was a hetero child, didn't mean I had sex with girls at 5 years old.



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There's a huge double standard by some when it comes to separating childhood from adulthood.

Childhood is nature's apprenticeship for adulthood.

No one would argue against teaching a child about driving, including detailed diagrams of the parts and elements of the highway code, even though obviously a Child shouldn't be actually driving until they are old enough.

Yet when it comes to sex the old religious based taboos and guilt kick in for many and all of a sudden everything about sec should be shielded from children. Even extending to nudity. The Daily mail still pixellates out female nipples to avoid killing any hapless children who might be accidentally exposed to them.

No wonder so many adults have sexual problems, and it's notable that Sex councillors first port ofcall when diagnosing probles is to ask abotu the patients childhood.

"Do children have a right to be gay?"

You could equally ask "Do children have aright to be straight?"

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Above all else, Children have a right to be Children without the pressures of conforming to any 'sexuality'. They will do that when 'they' are ready provided that they have not been taught that one or the other is 'wrong'.

Promoting homosexuality however, is vastly different to supporting a 'right' to it.

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Mr Squirrel wrote:Above all else, Children have a right to be Children without the pressures of conforming to any 'sexuality'. They will do that when 'they' are ready provided that they have not been taught that one or the other is 'wrong'.


Indeed.

Promoting homosexuality however, is vastly different to supporting a 'right' to it.


Given someone doesn't have a choice over their sexuality how would you promote it without selling the idea that one form of sexuality is superior to another. If anyone is guilty of promoting sexuality it's Organised Abrahamic Religion which has promoted heterosexuality over the centuries and demonising Homosexuality to the point where laws were ( and still are in certain countries ) passed against it, with punishments of death.


Section 28 was repulsively homophobic because it discriminated against homosexuality. I don't think any decent person would be against a law that prohibited to the promotion of one sexuality over another.

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Stanley Tweedle wrote:
philipdalton wrote:
grimtales1 wrote:
smeggypants wrote:


Can't believe she got away with that, though I imagine thats not the whole speech in context. However regardless of the editing, the statement where she is implying children do not have a right to be gay is a disgrace, and Section 28 is also homophobic. :stomp:
Another reason to dislike the woman and what she stood for.


The thing is here, she is talking about children. Do children have a right to be gay? I certainly think not, as anyone who has intercourse, either heterosexual or homosexual, with a child is a paedophile. Don't forget that years ago there was no mention at all of homosexuality in the school curriculum, there was none at all when my friend was at school in the 60's & 70's that he can remember of. When homosexuality was first decriminalised in the 60's it was still very much a taboo subject and anyone practising it with a boy under 21 could be severely punished. In the 1990's they were still wondering whether to lower that age of consent for gays or not, even though the age of majority had been lowered to 18.
When I was 15 in 1984/85 I came home from school with a book called 'Biology For Life' which contained a chapter on reproduction. In it, there was a passage on contraception, a passage on masturbation and a passage on homosexuality. The passage on homosexuality upset and shocked my parents, who read it, as it explained in quite graphic detail what anal sex was and said there was nothing wrong with being a homosexual. They were both Jehovah's Witnesses and had different moral standards from many other people at the time, but I'm pretty sure even if they hadn't been they still wouldn't have thought the book to be suitable for school use. I think there has to be a limit on what can be taught in schools, otherwise we are just putting children on the same level as adults.


Just being Gay doesn't mean you have sex. I was a hetero child, didn't mean I had sex with girls at 5 years old.


Exactly :)
We can teach children about the highway code/keeping safe on the road etc, it doesnt mean you're teaching them to drive. Likewise telling children about love and friendship or whatever, that doesnt mean they have sex. You're not going to teach them technique :D

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The whole point of childhood is to learn about life. An apprenticeship for adulthood if you like. Sheiliding children from some aspects of life and then throwing them in at the deep end at some arbitrary age isn't the best way.

The first thing Sex councillors focus upon is someone's childhood as they know that has an enormous effect on moulding an adults sexual health

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smeggypants wrote:The whole point of childhood is to learn about life. An apprenticeship for adulthood if you like. Sheiliding children from some aspects of life and then throwing them in at the deep end at some arbitrary age isn't the best way.

The first thing Sex councillors focus upon is someone's childhood as they know that has an enormous effect on moulding an adults sexual health


An sexual health of an adult is rarely affected by childhood experiences of (really) anything to do with sexual experiences, or otherwise.

What is certain is lower conformity to the 'norm' if the child
1) is affected by genetic or chemical imbalance, either at conception or through the period up to birth.
2) is suckled and/or fed badly in the first few years of life outside the womb,
3) is brought up in an unstable relationship with family members - spanning both siblings (which can be substituted by schooling), and peers/adults. Single parents more often than not score less than couples (and same sex couples score less than the heterosexual), insofar as a stable/nuclear family ideal is concerned.
4) is brought up in a place unassociated with security - perceived or actual - and
5) is exposed to harm, inside or outside those given in 3) and 4)

Nature and nurture are both contributory factors, but the above are highlighted in terms of importance in how the child can be affected.

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