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Salazar wrote:
annie27 wrote:You are missing the science .....if a real 747 had hit the pentagon it would of done only slight damage and the wings and tail would be on show , and yet a plane Melted into the twin towers and left a "disney shape " and the plane that hit a field just seemed to dissolve ...not a seat body part or piece of luggage ....now how could they of explained the lack of bodies at the Pentagon but of course you ignored the footage I posted from Arlington Hospital claiming NO DEAD BODIES ,just a few burns and scrapes .....what everyone on the plane dissolved ??? ,of course not ..


In my limited experience severed body parts and incinerated remains generally are not taken to hospitals. There's not a lot that can be done for them you see.

Anyway we can all feign knowledge of aeronautics, physics and whatever else and disagree over our subjective interpretations of photographs but you still haven't answered my question: why not use a real 757 if the intention was to convince the world that a 757 had been flown into the Pentagon? Why make it difficult?

Are you suggesting that every person who claims a relative was on the flight is a liar/actor? Are you suggesting that American Airlines employees - from baggage handlers upwards - are all complicit in the crime by not reporting to the public that there was no Flight 77 that morning? Are you suggesting the rescue workers who claimed to have located human remains from the crash site are all liars? Why haven't any of them come forward, ten years on, to tell to the truth?



I have NO doubt a plane left Dulles Airport full of people ....... ;)

but
All 58 passengers — including the hijackers — and six crew members, along with 125 employees at the Pentagon, died when the flight crashed into the Pentagon roughly two hours afterward.


I think this is a load of rubbish ...... :D




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Salazar wrote:
annie27 wrote:You are missing the science .....if a real 747 had hit the pentagon it would of done only slight damage and the wings and tail would be on show , and yet a plane Melted into the twin towers and left a "disney shape " and the plane that hit a field just seemed to dissolve ...not a seat body part or piece of luggage ....now how could they of explained the lack of bodies at the Pentagon but of course you ignored the footage I posted from Arlington Hospital claiming NO DEAD BODIES ,just a few burns and scrapes .....what everyone on the plane dissolved ??? ,of course not ..


In my limited experience severed body parts and incinerated remains generally are not taken to hospitals. There's not a lot that can be done for them you see.

Anyway we can all feign knowledge of aeronautics, physics and whatever else and disagree over our subjective interpretations of photographs but you still haven't answered my question: why not use a real 757 if the intention was to convince the world that a 757 had been flown into the Pentagon? Why make it difficult?


That's an easy one. A real 757 would have caused to much damage to the pentagon. And as tangs, who actually is a pilot, has said it would be nigh on impossible to actually fly a 757 into the pentagon in the manner it did.

Who are you claiming is feigning knowledge of physics? It's the physics that pretty much proves a 757 didn't hit the pentagon.


Are you suggesting that every person who claims a relative was on the flight is a liar/actor? Are you suggesting that American Airlines employees - from baggage handlers upwards - are all complicit in the crime by not reporting to the public that there was no Flight 77 that morning? Are you suggesting the rescue workers who claimed to have located human remains from the crash site are all liars? Why haven't any of them come forward, ten years on, to tell to the truth?



I have yet to see anyone claim they had a relative on that flight, Although as Annie said it's possible that such a flight did leave that morning. If one did it certainly didn't hit the pentagon.

And shame on Purdue University for showing a 757 tail fin slice through the pentagon, when the pictures show that this was not the case whatsoever.

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smeggypants wrote:That's an easy one. A real 757 would have caused to much damage to the pentagon. And as tangs, who actually is a pilot, has said it would be nigh on impossible to actually fly a 757 into the pentagon in the manner it did.

Who are you claiming is feigning knowledge of physics? It's the physics that pretty much proves a 757 didn't hit the pentagon.


Why didn't they fabricate the hijacking of a smaller plane then? Why use the Pentagon at all if they were wary of causing too much damage? Your explanation makes no sense whatsoever and does not stand up to basic rational scrutiny.

smeggypants wrote:I have yet to see anyone claim they had a relative on that flight, Although as Annie said it's possible that such a flight did leave that morning. If one did it certainly didn't hit the pentagon.


If you are genuinely telling the truth about that then you haven't looked very hard and it shows your so-called "independent research" up for what it is: an obsessive internet trawl for information to "prove" your theory whilst discounting, or ignoring the existence of, alternative evidence. The victims have all been named as have, where appropriate, their employers, their spouses/siblings and the universities/colleges they attended. Not one company or university has ever come forward to suggest that so-and-so never worked for them or was one of their former students. Explain that.


smeggypants wrote:And shame on Purdue University for showing a 757 tail fin slice through the pentagon, when the pictures show that this was not the case whatsoever.


No they didn't.



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smeggypants wrote:
I have yet to see anyone claim they had a relative on that flight, Although as Annie said it's possible that such a flight did leave that morning. If one did it certainly didn't hit the pentagon.


I can give you some info in this respect, but you'd have to do a bit of your own research to determine which of the following Victims are alledged to have died in which Location, (i.e. South Tower, North Tower, Passenger on AA flight 93, Passenger on AA flight 77 etc) and also which of them have Living Relatives listed.

Here's the link, - it takes you to a list of the alledged victims of 9/11 (although I'm not sure if its meant to be a fully comprehensive list). It's the CNN Website, and is titled, "September 11 - 'A Memorial'".

You can click on any name on the list to find out more about each Victim, - such as Name, Age, Residence, Occupation, Location (i.e. where they died - South Tower, North Tower, Passenger on AA flight 93, etc), and also when their' Memorial Page was last Updated. In some cases the victim's page will contain Tributes from Family Members & Friends. The bit that might be a bit time consumming is searching through every name on the list looking for those who were 'Passengers' (on one of the alledged Planes), as opposed those who died in one of the WTC's/Other Location.


Here, for example, is the page listing for the named Pilot of Flight 77 Charles Burlingame (Captain of Flight 77) - i.e. the alledged Pentagon Plane.

Basic Info for this pilot -

Name: Charles Burlingame
Age: 51
Residence: Herndon, VA, United States
Occupation: Captain, American Airlines
Location: AA Flight 77

In his case, for example, under the Tributes section, there are 6 entries for the Captain, none of whom are Family Members, and only one who claims any relationship at all with Charles Bulingame, - that of Sakai Troxell (listed as the friend of Charles' niece).

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i may have lost the plot here , but what has all of this got to do with a film about maggie thatcher ? :confused:

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wotsit2 wrote:i may have lost the plot here , but what has all of this got to do with a film about maggie thatcher ? :confused:



Thread drift :) Too late to return now :)

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Salazar wrote:

smeggypants wrote:And shame on Purdue University for showing a 757 tail fin slice through the pentagon, when the pictures show that this was not the case whatsoever.


No they didn't.


I'm afraid they did. See I took the liberty of checking out the Purdue University report and animations and the animation clearly shows the tail entering the building intact.

You may have missed the post where I proved the Purdue University report was nonsense, so I'll repeat it below... Watch the video @ 0:41 seconds the tailfin is showing cleanly slicing into the building, and again at further clips. Even teh still picture shows it ..


*************************************************************

Salazar wrote:
Computer scientists and graphics experts at Purdue University created a model to attempt to replicate what actually occurred if a 757 had hit the Pentagon. Their findings were pretty consistent with what was found. They theorised that the plane would essentially "liquify" as it struck the reinforced building and "pour" itself into the impact hole it created. That would leave very little of the shell intact.


Thought I'd do some research of my own regarding this Purdue University computer model. it seems they are completey stupid or are helping create propaganda. This computer model rings a bell from the laughable BBC documentary that was shown to debunk CTs on 911 sometime ago. I remember it failing badly then ...

So it seems the purdue University didn't claim the plane liquified as it hit the building and "pour" itself into the impact hole it created. I'm not suprised as that behaviour would defy the laws of physics. No to give Purdue some credit, unlike salazar, there explanation does conform to the laws of physics and they dont' claim the debris changes direction.

So what does purdue university actually claim ?

1] They show the tailfin they show shearing intact into the building

2] The wings are sliced into multiple segments by the vertical columns of the pentagon and debris enters the building between the columns, knocking the not very strong bricks and mortar walls down.
As you can see in this video and screenshot



Click on image for full size:
Image


In fact I would pretty much agree that prudue University have accurately modelled what would happen if a 757 had flown into the pentagon at the position and angle of whatever hit it.

HOWEVER THERE'S A HUGE FLAW IN THEIR WORK ..... REALITY.

They should have looked at the precollapse pictures ...

Image
Click on image for full size:
Image


We have proof a 757 tail fin didn't slice into the building as Purdue claim. We also have proof

here's another image of the impact hole and proof no tail fin hit the building

Image




Grade F fail, I'm afraid.


yes using the Purdue University example certainly was

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After all the hullabaloo and pointless graphics the world will still believe the official verdict that it was a terrorist attack. Only a very small minority of people, or should I say sceptics, will conclude that it was a conspiracy.

I'm with the majority until someone comes forward from the team that allegedly orchestrated the 9/11 attacks and tells all.

One thing that puzzles me is; if there was a conspiracy who were the American 'suicide pilots' that were prepared to die in a raging inferno just to give America an excuse to go to war?

Or were the Twin Tower Boeings operated by remote control? Snigger, snigger. :D



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Rocky wrote:After all the hullabaloo and pointless graphics the world will still believe the official verdict that it was a terrorist attack. Ony a very small minority of people, or should I say sceptics, will conclude that it was a conspiracy.

I'm with the majority until someone comes forward from the team that allegedly orchestrated the 9/11 attacks and tells all.


A significant amount of people don't believe the official version so I'd hardly call it a small minority. but none of us have any figures on who believes what. Anyway the number people believing something has no logical value it's quality of truthfullness.

Appeal to Popularity is one of the more we4ll known logical fallacies.

of course some just feel more comfortable tagging along with the majority and there's a name for those ;)

What I find fascinating is that a] there's no evidence of Islamists committing 911, b] the Governments and those with interests in the Middle East have a l9ong History of lying, c] while it's obvious 2 planes hit the towers there' no credible evidence a 757 hit he Pentagon and d] the manner of the collapse of WTC7 is totally inconstistent with the assymetrical damage casued by debris from the towers.


With that in mind I cannot udnerstand anyone simply believing the government explanation and writing off other explantions as being 'loopy' - The government theory is more loopy than any of the theories.


One thing that puzzles me is; if there was a conspiracy who were the American 'suicide pilots' that were prepared to die in a raging inferno just to give America an excuse to go to war?

Or were the Twin Tower Boeings operated by remote control? :)


Planes can take off fly somewhere and land all automatically. Auto Pilots have been around for a long time.

I would doubt any pilots would willingly suicide themselves. Planes are easy to remote control. Crusaders sitting in America holding Xbox controllers fly drones in Pakistan and shoot civilians.

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[quote="smeggypants"]So it seems the purdue University didn't claim the plane liquified as it hit the building and "pour" itself into the impact hole it created. I'm not suprised as that behaviour would defy the laws of physics. No to give Purdue some credit, unlike salazar, there explanation does conform to the laws of physics and they dont' claim the debris changes direction.

No-one has suggested that the debris changes direction yet you have alleged this at least three times. Why? Diversion technique? Strawman?



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Smeggy..are you actually serious when you claim that Boeings can be piloted by remote control from the ground? ...And here's me thinking you had half a brain.

When a Boeing is on 'auto pilot' there is also a real live pilot on board the plane.

If there wasn't we'd soon see the end of piloted passenger aircraft and all pilots having to sign on the dole.

Classic! :rofl:

By the way, they weren't drones that hit the Pentagon and the Twin Towers.



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Image
A Boeing 720 being flown under remote control as part of NASA's Controlled Impact Demonstration

Article Source

Image
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ghostgirl wrote:Image
A Boeing 720 being flown under remote control as part of NASA's Controlled Impact Demonstration

Article Source


It's a test, but commercially it will never happen. It's not even a proper Boeing, just a replica that flew a couple of thousand metres.
:thumbdown:



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Salazar wrote:
smeggypants wrote:So it seems the purdue University didn't claim the plane liquified as it hit the building and "pour" itself into the impact hole it created. I'm not suprised as that behaviour would defy the laws of physics. No to give Purdue some credit, unlike salazar, there explanation does conform to the laws of physics and they dont' claim the debris changes direction.


No-one has suggested that the debris changes direction yet you have alleged this at least three times. Why? Diversion technique? Strawman?



No one except you.


Salazar wrote:
smeggypants wrote:This is where believers of the official theory come unstuck. As there is no wing debris on the front lawn. Niether is there any debris of the huge tailfin on the front either. A tailfin that hit the building didn't even smash the windows or leave a mark.


Computer scientists and graphics experts at Purdue University created a model to attempt to replicate what actually occurred if a 757 had hit the Pentagon. Their findings were pretty consistent with what was found.
They theorised that the plane would essentially "liquify" as it struck the reinforced building and "pour" itself into the impact hole it created.
That would leave very little of the shell intact.

The only way something could 'pour' itself into the impact hole would be for it change direction.

And when I took a look at the Purdue findings your claims about them were untrue. Their claims didn't involve the plane liquifying and pouring itself into the hole at all.

And although Purdue university weren't silly enough to make claims that went agaisnt the laws of physics, they did make claims that went against the laws of reality....

"Their findings were pretty consistent with what was found."

.... as contrary it your claim the Purdue simulations showed the tail fin slicing into the building almost intact. Something else you claimed was untrue, despite my posting of the purdue simulations twice which shows their simulated behaviour of the tail fin

It seems you are ignoring both reality and making false claims about purdue.

I suspect Purdue University acted on good faith and were not shown the pre-collapse pictures of the pentagon and merely assumed a 7575 tail fin sliced through the pentagon.

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smeggypants wrote:The only way something could 'pour' itself into the impact hole would be for it change direction.


Garbage. Does your hot water change direction when you pour it from your kettle? No? Then don't put words in my mouth and try to verify your lies by quoting things which don't back up what your saying. The plane created a hole as it flew into it. What part of that suggests a change of direction?



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Salazar wrote:
smeggypants wrote:The only way something could 'pour' itself into the impact hole would be for it change direction.


Garbage. Does your hot water change direction when you pour it from your kettle? No? Then don't put words in my mouth and try to verify your lies by quoting things which don't back up what your saying. The plane created a hole as it flew into it. What part of that suggests a change of direction?


The tailfin that's what. Only way it could have entered the hole in the building was for it to change direction. had it not changed direction it would have smashed into the upper part of the building. And we know that was impossible as the pictures prove.

No lies at all I'm afraid. But talking of lies Purdue University showed, in their study/simulation that the tail fin entered the building intact ( which means it it must have magically passed through the upper half the building harry Potter style :) ), but you claimed that didn't happen.


Your false claim about Purdue University

Salazar wrote:Computer scientists and graphics experts at Purdue University created a model to attempt to replicate what actually occurred if a 757 had hit the Pentagon. Their findings were pretty consistent with what was found. They theorised that the plane would essentially "liquify" as it struck the reinforced building and "pour" itself into the impact hole it created.


... would entail the tail fin magically liquefying before it even struck anything and then changing direction to magically 'pour itself' into the impact hole.

Purdue's tail fin didn't change direction,as we can see below. It sliced straight into the building. Obvious that didn't happen but it least they didn't try and violate the laws of physics like your false claim does. :)

Click on image for full size:
Image

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wotsit2 wrote:i may have lost the plot here , but what has all of this got to do with a film about maggie thatcher ? :confused:



Yeah, you're right Wots..why has a thread about the Iron Lady morphed into a 9/11 discussion?
:confused:



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annie27 wrote:This woman never fails to amaze me ...she has got that crazed look of power madness just right :D
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/mery ... 6002994269

Of course it will be another load of bullshit ....I wonder if it will mention how the Bilderbergers brought her down :chin:

Admittedly, they are efficient talent-spotters, inviting Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher and Bill Clinton before they were household names
;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ntasy.html

This is worth a read ...all 3 parts
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/mar/10/extract

Good afternoon, Mr Rockefeller," murmured Jim. The gatekeeper bowed and lifted the gate. Rockefeller waved, and the taxi disappeared up the drive.


Then came Umberto Agnelli of Fiat, Italy's de facto royal family, net worth $3.3bn, barely noticeable in the back seat of some old sedan.


here was James Wolfensohn, president of the World Bank. "Incredible," murmured Fred. "Unbelievable."


here was Vernon Jordan, Bill Clinton's close friend, his unelected unofficial adviser and golfing partner - Vernon Jordan, who plucked the president from Arkansas obscurity and nurtured him to the White House, and who is widely credited with pulling strings to get James Wolfensohn his job as president of the World Bank.


there was Henry Kissinger, possibly the most powerful individual the postwar world has known: Dr Kissinger, who sanctioned the secret bombing of Cambodia and later won the Nobel Peace Prize,


The taxis kept coming. There were CEOs of pharmaceutical giants and tobacco companies and car manufacturers, the heads of banks from Europe and North America. Some, like Richard Holbrooke, America's United Nations representative, gave us friendly smiles, which Jim returned with a glare of undisguised loathing.




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annie27 wrote:
This woman never fails to amaze me ...she has got that crazed look of power madness just right
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/mery ... 6002994269


It's odd, that article that you pointed us to from your link above refers to a $A1.6 million grant to IRON LADY "from the soon-to-be-abolished UK Film Council", but I can't find a single reference to either the Film itself or it's Funding on the UK Film Council website.

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